A while ago Bryndis Roberts was removed as her ward Relief Society President in Atlanta Georgia and she recently lost her treasured temple recommend for her support and leadership of Ordain Women. While this move by her local leaders was received with immense sadness it has also caused her to ask herself questions about the nature of God and who Mormonism’s current representation of God best serves.
In this searching and frank discussion we discuss the nature of God. We talk about how, despite the church’s attempts to manage, control and politicize the narrative of God, God shows up powerfully in ways that both surprise and empower.
For a black woman and a brown woman the notion of God as only white and only male has begun to sit uncomfortably as we experience God beyond masculinity and beyond whiteness.
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Bryndis & Gina, I could listen to the pair of you chat with each other all day long. But seriously, thank you for expanding my – white, American, born into LDS – view of God. I never thought of God as anything but male and white before turning this corner in my life. I enjoyed hearing your thoughts from this podcast.
Bryndis – I appreciate your unwillingness to compromise on what you feel God is telling you is right. You go girl.
I’ve been thinking that somehow we could make the Holy Ghost to be the Spirit of our Heavenly Mother. Granted we know that the Holy Ghost doesn’t have a body of Flesh & Bones, no spirit does… neither yours nor mine.
But if we make the Holy Ghost to actually be the spirit of our Heavenly Mother suddenly she is omnipresent everywhere throughout our theology. From the Father, the Son, & the Holy Ghost to the Father, the Son, & the Mother (perhaps the order can be rearranged).
At any rate it’s worth contemplating since the gender of the Holy Ghost hasn’t been revealed. At the very least the HG can be a Heavenly Sister.
I love this idea, David, as the Holy Ghost being feminine and actually Heavenly Mother. Perfect. And what if the balance between the intellect and spirit is the balance of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother? Is there a fear to admit/reveal that a woman comes into the internal experience of both men and women? I don’t know. Maybe.
Also, in my personal opinion, Heavenly Mother has been waiting for us to ask, to be strong enough to want to know, to be intellectually and spiritually ready to know. Just as was the case with Blacks and the Priesthood. Now, let me be clear: I joined the Church as a White 30 year old 15 years after 1978 and I didn’t even know about that ban when I joined. When I found out 3 years later, I almost left the Church since I was born to parents engaged in the Civil Rights movement and I grew up very equalized with Blacks in my home and school. A few Black members are the ones who helped me get through that faith-shake.
My point is that by asking and asking through church channels and asking through prayer, (irritating the status quo as graciously as possible but no with apology) we are actually preparing ourselves to receive the answer. And since God has chosen these men as his mouthpiece on earth, I believe an answer can come through them, from God, DESPITE themselves if our desires are righteous. And you are invested in staying in the church.
Finally, some people get that answer far ahead of the Church mainstream, “stuck,” place, even before the Brethren, especially when the issue is much more personal to you than it is to them. Certainly, as a woman, I am going to see the issues around roles for women in the Church more than a man is. Part of me understands this because there is such variance in progression of millions of church members and the “milk before meat” idea may be causing the resistance of the Brethren to sincerely ask with a fullness of a RECEIVING heart. We are talking about a greater Sharing of Power between men and women -yin and yang– on the earth. This has not yet been accomplished globally so this is a big shift we are asking for.
I always remember the Church and Christ are “living” entities, which to me means: growing, expanding, transcending, evolving and Maturing. It is NOT a static organization. When I was [spiritually] a child I spoke as a child (*When I was a racist I spoke as a racist….when I was a polygamist..)
You’re doing beautifully Bryndis. And I totally get being told to join the Church and that “you don’t know what the Lord told me.”
When joseph Smith was in the Sacred Grove, Heavenly Father and Jesus appeared to him. He described what they looked like. They were white. Jesus is white just like the Father. He’s not black or any other color. Other people have also seen Jesus and said he is white. I don’t know what more proof you sisters want! Women will never hold the priesthood and they never should. Women have their own special calling. That’s hard enough. To be a good wife, mother and sister in the church is all we need beside any callings that we may have. you sisters can keep on hoping and praying for priesthood membership but it’s never going to happen and neither should it!
I don’t really know how to respond. But I’ll leave you with a song:
https://www.google.co.nz/search?ei=Lk70WYPGIYSX8wX_g53wCQ&q=White+man+gungor&oq=White+man+gungor&gs_l=psy-ab.3…2094.3386.0.3533.7.6.0.0.0.0.472.472.4-1.1.0….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..6.1.472…0j0i67k1j0i10k1.0.IlIqZEdsb7Y